LinuxSA Mailing list archives

  From: Stephen Donaldson <steve@cyberqual.com>
  To  : Andrew Reid <andrew.reid@plug.cx>
  Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:54:20 +0930

Re: HTML Mail

Andrew Reid wrote:

> On 28 Jun 2001 23:20:05 +0930, Stephen Donaldson wrote:
>
> > I have had my say on this list before on stuff like this, needless to
> > say I'm
> > in agreement with you Andrew. Some people on this list think it's ok to be
> > rude, personally I think they need help.  I sort of cringe when after the
> > install-fest comes and goes, there is usually a posting about welcoming the
> > 'new linux users'. What we should do is 'warn' new list members about the
> > 'politically correct' zealots and hope we don't lose too many :-)
>
> I think the person in question has NOT been at all rude, just blunt.
> That's him. Deal with it.

Oh, David and I have had disagreements before, it should not stop David from having
his say, nor should it stop me or any other person disagreeing with him or any
other person, that's life and I do deal with it, and I'm sure will deal with it
again in the future :-)
If at the end of the day we want to encourage 'all' users to use this list, then
issues like this have to be resolved to the best of our ability.

>

> Secondly, these people ARE getting help. Pegasus' question was answered
> and everything seemed happy. Why the big fuss? Don't know. Apparently
> Andrew Pullin has taken offense to something that David Lloyd said to
> Pegasus which Pegasus isn't offended by. Hmmm...

Hmm indeed!

>
> > This is supposed to be a list for all, unfortunately some people, for reasons
> > unfathomable can't help making new members feel,  emm...-uncomfortable?
>
> To quote a David Lloyd's most recent post on the topic:
>
> "I can actually clear up misunderstandings with people, well, apparently
> at least until now."
>
> Which says to me:
>
> "It's all been running quite OK until one individual decided that it
> wasn't"
>
> To be completely blunt, Andrew (Pullin), you've taken the whole issue
> way out of proportion. The newbies that David is apparently scaring away
> by the thousand seem to be comming back. If David has offended them,
> David's got the skills (and nouse) to patch it up.

Possibly

So, you know of people who have come back after having an unpleasant experience (in
their opinion) on this list, I hope you are right, I know of 4 personally and who
point blank refuse to post even now, due to past reply's.  A quick check through
the archives will reveal some interesting posts.  Most enlightening in fact.

> If said newbie posts
> to the list in disgust, I'm sure there'll be plenty of people (me
> included) explaining to them that they took it the wrong way and to sit
> back down.

Good, I try to get them back too :-)
Did you know that when newbies first post here, it's classed in business talk, as a
"Moment of Truth", it's when they gain an impression of the list, it's members and
it's culture.  If new people experience a Moment of Truth that is to them
unpleasant, they will take with them an impression that reflects on all of us.
Think on it, find something in your own experiences that you really did not like
and ask yourself, did I give it a second chance, did 'I' misunderstand, or did you
just say,$%^& it, that's the last I deal with that lot.
Remember, it's the end user (list members, newbies etc.) who decide what's
appropriate. If we lose members it is "WE' who should be asking ourselves the tough
question about appropriate etiquette etc. not trying to blame the end user for
misunderstanding the intent. We, all of us, on this list who want to make it work
for as many people as possible should continually monitor and improve on how we
deal with newbies, experienced users and technical troubles and so on.  This is
what makes for long term survival.

Dang, who put the soap box there :-)

>
> > Nice to see you working to make things better too :-)
>
> Better? That's really quite interesting. I'd have said that we've just
> wasted a tone of bandwidth unecessarily.

That's your opinion, and that's fine by me.

> You can get stuffed if you try to tell me that "We shouldn't have
> replied", as the original post was fairly close to an "attack" on
> David's personality.

Interesting statement, but a bit extreme IMO

> You don't just sit back and be quiet when that sort of thing happens.
> You let them know they're wrong.
>
>    - andrew

Agreed, maybe that's why Andrew posted, maybe he really does believe something was
wrong?

Steve



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