LinuxSA Mailing list archives

  From: Matthew Geddes <mgeddes@xavier.sa.edu.au>
  To  : Jason Tan <jason@rebel.rebel.net.au>
  Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:05:56 +0930

Re: MS Curriculum at schools and TAFEs ...

Jason Tan wrote:

> the inteface is also only useful if you know what the words mean.
> 
> "To add a packet filtering rule to deny all traffic to all ports click
> here"
> 
> For excample is not useful unless you know what all traffic to all ports
> means and packet filtering is.

Enter context sensitive help.

> For this you need fundamtnal knowledge of the system so you can know what
> the words mean or at least a plain language explanantion avialable.
> CLIs typically dont have this, and most linux gui amdin tools I have seen
> dont have this.

Most GUI tools full stop don't have this (Unix or otherwise). Even "User
Friendly" applications such as Word leave a fair bit to the user. I
believe this is part of the reason why manuals were written.

> No but they are not suggesting anything past that point either.

No? There have been a fair few posts from a number of us that have
spoken about out-of-the-box linux systems that work out-of-the-box.
There has been mention of using admin tools that are easy to use
(Mandrake's doing well, but not there yet). You really need something
which, to install, boots from CD and asks less questions than Windows,
but does more.

> And as I keep repeating I dont see the problems with inital isntall I see
> the problems afterwards.
> 
> There are a lot of proeffesional sys admins for unix systems on this list
> I believe.
> 
> I bet not one of them is willing to telltheir boss they could be replaced
> by the receptionist once the install is done.

No, but that is not the same. Most of the Sys Admins on this list are
working work companies that require more than schools. Schools don't
need much, but it has to be there and cheap. If you were to create an
interface that was simple (and it *is* possible) and stick it on a Linux
box, they *could* run it themselves. It would take minimal training and
be quite effective. There would be no ongoing admin that couldn't be
done by a user (how often do you think schools would need to modify
their packet filtering rules?).

> > This is one of the most important issues that the IT Community at large
> > is going to have to deal with. Education is what our future(s) stem
> > from. Let's not mess it up with the help of monopolising corporate
> > evils.
> 
> It certainly is a very important area.
> I happento personally believe that this discussionis ignoring fundamental
> falws in current policy however.

Hence people discussing it. So that we can work out the flaws and find a
way to move around them. Standing back saying 'no' all of the time is
not helping to iron out the problems you are pointing out.

> I really dont MS products in schools are the problem(there are not always
> the solution either).

There is no *the* problem, but they are a problem (well they are for the
schools I have discussed this with).

> I do belvie that ihnadequate traning and support mechanisms are the
> problem and could be reaosnbly easily9but not cheaply) corrected.

Another problem.

> But then again spending money on PCs taht willnever be used properly or to
> their fullest is I think false economy.

Another problem.

> Like any tools you need properly qualified people to sue them to tehir
> fullest. These peopel are lacking, through no fault of the classroom level
> educator.

Like toasters, Microwaves and VCRs?

Matt

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