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  From: Andrew Reid <andrew.reid@plug.cx>
  To  : Jason Tan <jason@rebel.rebel.net.au>
  Date: 24 Apr 2001 13:55:28 +0930

Re: MS Curriculum at schools and TAFEs ...

On 24 Apr 2001 13:40:29 +0930, Jason Tan wrote:

> A nice clear bit obscure interface is a bit of an oxymoron to me.

I meant there whereabouts. They are few and far between.

> the inteface is also only useful if you know what the words mean.

You 'dumb it down' for the users. Using the same sort of ideas as
locale, you can set the level and display the messages according to the
user's ability.

> "To add a packet filtering rule to deny all traffic to all ports click
> here"

To stop your LAN accessing the Internet, click here.
To stop your LAN accessing this computer, click here.

Not difficult to do, if you think it out.

> For excample is not useful unless you know what all traffic to all ports
> means and packet filtering is.

You don't have to necessarily use the correct terms.

> For this you need fundamtnal knowledge of the system so you can know what
> the words mean or at least a plain language explanantion avialable.
> CLIs typically dont have this, and most linux gui amdin tools I have seen
> dont have this.

See above. I think that we might have to synthesize our own GUI.
Probably web-based. I'll probably write something -- heck, I've already
written stuff to do specific tasks. Just need to package it and call it
something.

> And as I keep repeating I dont see the problems with inital isntall I see
> the problems afterwards.

If the system is setup properly, these problems shouldn't exist. When
and if they do, they should be able to be easily fixed by a person on
the other end of an SSH session.

> There are a lot of proeffesional sys admins for unix systems on this list
> I believe.

I believe that too.

> I bet not one of them is willing to telltheir boss they could be replaced
> by the receptionist once the install is done.

We're talking about education here. I know that if that was what would
be the most beneficial to the school, I'd do it. Quite frankly, I'd
rather not do it at all if I knew I wasn't going to do it properly.

Why risk getting a 'reputation' of a slack, hopeless System
Administrator when all it would take would be for you to do it right the
first time.

> It certainly is a very important area.
> I happento personally believe that this discussionis ignoring fundamental
> falws in current policy however.

That (probably) is the case. We're not looking at the cause of the
problem. This is really 2 fold:

    1) In public schools, DETE have a stupid employment policy. You've
    got to have a DETE ID to be employed, and you can only get one by
    working for them.. [huh ?]

    2) The bodies that fund schools don't put enough money into IT. This
    isn't going to change for a while. Get used to it.

We've really got to make the best of what we've got.

> I really dont MS products in schools are the problem(there are not always
> the solution either).

Don't you? If you read Richard's original message, it is a problem.
Schools are becomming/at the risk of becomming Microsoft bar none. This
is a problem. Rather than winge about it, I'm doing something about it.
You'll see a lot of work comming from the people that use Linux in
Education soon. Take it or leave it.

> I do belvie that ihnadequate traning and support mechanisms are the
> problem and could be reaosnbly easily9but not cheaply) corrected.
> But then again spending money on PCs taht willnever be used properly or to
> their fullest is I think false economy.
> Like any tools you need properly qualified people to sue them to tehir
> fullest. These peopel are lacking, through no fault of the classroom level
> educator.

I know for a fact that training is something that can be easily
overcome.

I dare say that this will be something that I and others come up with in
the Linux in Education package.

I know Linux will work in Education. I know that Linux is a better
alternative (for a myriad of reasons) than Microsoft based solutions. I
know that I'm going to do something about it.

Take it or leave it. It's going to happen.

   - andrew

[ PS: this discussion is probably best moved to LinuxEDU@plug.cx, IMHO ]

-- 
Andrew Reid                   email: andrew.reid@plug.cx
                              www:   http://www.plug.cx
"If ignorance is bliss        phone: +61 401 946 813
 why aren't there more 
 happy people?"


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