LinuxSA Mailing list archives

  From: Jason Tan <jason@rebel.rebel.net.au>
  To  : Matthew Geddes <mgeddes@xavier.sa.edu.au>
  Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:29:35 +0930 (CST)

Re: MS Curriculum at schools and TAFEs ...

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Matthew Geddes wrote:

> Jason Tan wrote:
> 
> > Fulltime professional IT staff at schools,.
> 
> I'm full time and consider myself professional :-). Whilst this is still
> a problem in most schools, it is becoming much less of a problem every
> day.

Well I think there are two usages for proefessional in this context.
You may meet one or both.

Preofessional in manner, ie attentionoto best pratise, attentionot detail,
courteous etc.
And professional as in relevant tertiary level qualification.

I emant the lattter, thought he former wuld be nice, as it is in any job.

> 
> > At some number of IT staff per some number of PCs woudl be a good start.
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't understand this sentence.

Eg 1 IT person per 100 PCs.

> 
> > most of the problems I am aware of in schools are directly or indirectly
> > related to teachers being forced into technology and roles where they are
> > nto trained,, that arnet part of their jb descriptiona nd that they
> > recieve no useful support for, and cant afford to get useful support.
> 
> There are mailing lists and other areas of support. I actually support a
> fair few Catholic schools when it gets too hard for their IT guy/chick.
> This is usually in the form of free phone support.


Yes but that does not help peopel in state schools.
Mailing lists are only helpful if you know baout about the system to start
with.

Try email support for someone who doenst know how to use email. Not
useful.


> > Remove the stress with computers and I think you will remove the biases
> > and the cause for resistance to change - ie change will cost me more
> > stress and more work, which I wont get paid for and dont ahve the skills
> > to do.
> 
> But by moving to something like Linux, you could easily remove stress.
> The biggest problem we have is computers not working when a teacher has
> a class in a computer room. 90% of problems are to do with the lack of
> security on the single user operating systems that we run.

No you increase it.
Take soem one away form an environemnt they are familiar with, put them
into and environment they are nto familiar with, and probably cnat see the
need for the cahnge, which in the cas of linux requires a much more
fundamental uderstading to get reaosnable results with, without sufficent
traing, and that adds up to more stress.

> > Incidently I happen to think that for a very high percentage of school
> > requirments, Windows or Mac hosts are fine and even desirable.
> 
> I do disagree with this. OK, people are used to Windows and Word, but
> there is no security, the stability is not there and we can't afford not
> to have reliable systems. It would decrease the number of hours I spend
> fixing Windows machines. I know one school is moving towards a Sun Thin
> Client solution to avoid this.

Well I cant see how that would be economical for most shchools who cant
afford  $1200 Pcs, let alone $20k servers and $1k thin clients.

Ciriix migth be more affordable at least ahrdware wise, I am not sure what
the lsincesing cost for that would be.

> 
> > They have the required applcations base in most casses at affordable
> > rates for schools, they are proably the most well
> > understaood platfrom amongst both teachers and students and this is the
> > most telling point against other paltforms in a school environment.
> 
> Applications are the biggest problem I see. There are the "multimedia"
> (read: animated) CDs that are used as learning resources and the
> software that is forced upon schools for keeping records (by people like
> CEO and SSABSA). Not so much the Office suites or whatnot.

Not ot mentiont ha fact tha most studnes and teachers if they have aPC at
home ahve awindows PC with wndows apps, (ie ms word/office or ms works),
not to mention lots of hard won "skills" in that OS and those apps.


> > Most schools simly dont ahve enough in house schools to adminsiter PCs and
> > networks, but all the skills they do have are typcially Winor Mac based.
> 
> A couple of carefully chosen questions to this list could answer enough
> questions to get a school full of PCs running linux. Given most
> distributions these days, a simple HOWTO would be enough to guide
> someone through setting up a (for example) Mandrake 7.2 lab.

It is not the setup which is the problem.
It is the ongoing support, the crisis response time, (ie I am giving a
lessioon now and my web page wont come up what do I do? where is that $50
an hour conultatnt who fixes our systems, why isnt he here now...)

A linux system is easy for you to adminsiter, but not so easy for an
average person or an average teacher, even an "IT coordinator".

> 
> > I do think howver that certain applications such as servers and teaching
> > IT(as opposed to teaching non IT topics using a computer as a tool in the
> > same way we use a pen as a tool) that linux/freebsd would be
> > useful/desirable.
> 
> We are hoping to introduce a couple of Linux machines here for some of
> the networking stuff over the next 6-12 months. We just need to see what
> criteria we need to fulfill and how much time we've got to go into the
> stuff properly.
> 
> > So what should be done is hilight he need for proessional IT staff.
> > Perhaps the IT staff of parliemnt house should be allput in schoools. That
> > might hilight how esential it is for computer netowrks to ahve
> > professional IT staff to the pollies.
> > 
> > Because teachers tend as far as I am aware know taht professional admins
> > are needed, but dont have the funds to get it.
> 
> Or, how about if we came up with a Zero Administration Linux (MS was
> using the "Zero Administration" buzzword a while back to sell it's stuff
> to schools). It would be possible to have a distribution that asked very
> few questions and locked itself down real tight. Then nobody would need
> to spend much money. I mean it would be *Another* Linux distribution,
> but if it served a purpose....

A system that is flexible and multipurpaose cant be zero admin. It is a
lie for windows and would be a lie for linux.

That is why there is a demand for these guys called sys admins.

While it is fine if your school has access to a permanent IT guy, like
yours does in you, the majority of schools however dont.
And evne those that do, like a certain private secondary boys "laptop
school" I worked at once, dont necessarily ahve peopel of the right
calibre or inclination ot understand or be able to use linux for eithger
server or desktop purposes.

And until they do you will find resistance to change away forom what
people have invested a ocnsiderable portion of their own time and money
into getting a level of usability.

These people dont play with PCs for fun, they do it because they ahve been
dragged kicking and screaming into it, often at their own expense in tiem
and money.

> 
> Because it would be GPLd, people could burn multiple copies and leave it
> in the library for students to borrow. It would be simple enough for
> them to take it home and install (obviously, you'd have it default to
> not wiping out their Windows partition - or would you?).
> 

Well lets see how manya games are there for linux... and will mum be able
to do her wordprocessign for the footy club, and will dad kill me,
becausse he cant use mirc?

Most kids dont have PCs, and those that do share them in mny cases with
the rest of the family.

I suspect this is not practicable for most kids.

You wanted suggestions? Mine is get sufficent quality IT trained staff
into schools befioore you make them change the status quo, which they have
enough trouble dealing with already.

Great your school has them make your changes, but most dont and the
consultants they do get charge too much and offer too little.

jason

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