LinuxSA Mailing list archives

  From: Greg Hicks <ghicks@ihug.com.au>
  To  : <linuxsa@linuxsa.org.au>
  Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:46:13 +0930

Re: MS Curriculum at schools and TAFEs ...

Hi All,

Tis time to throw in my 2c worth.

Since a very large company like MS has been getting its fingers smacked under antitrust
suites, some manufacturers traditionally tied to MS have taken the opportunity to make
their code Linux friendly.  Companies such as National Instruments (they make interfaces
for IEEE-488 or GPIB - General Purpose Interface Bus - and drivers) have made the effort
due to the swell of the Linux's usage.

On the note of programming, there is a rich and readily available resource of languages
from C to Python. The KDE Develop appears to support ANSI C++, and has the ability to
create X Windows applications as well.

On the ease of install and use aspect - I began installing Linux about V5 and found it a
little unfriendly, but still quite easy.  I have since then installed and used RH7,
Mandrake7.2, OS/2 Warp, Windows 95, Windows 98 and Windows NT.  They are all pretty much
on par with installs, Mandrake was definitely the easiest, followed by RH7, OS/2 then
Windows 95/98 and last NT.

Of all the OS/s, Linux and OS/2 are already network savvy plus they can both operate out
of the box as servers or clients.  Windows like to think it is, but requires some
additional components (usually on the distributed CD) and NT servers are a different
package to the client (workstation)

There are more products coming out every day, Star Office takes up most of the Office
suite in a single hit, Netscape takes care of web browsing and mail.  I think there is a
simple CAD program out there, and each time I look at some of the specialist software
like PROTEL, I some starting to do the Linux thing.

It is becomming apparent that Linux is getting better support and over time, even the
'niche' software may be seduced by the call of X.

thats my 2c

greg

David Lloyd wrote:

> Stephen et al!
>
> > I have followed this tortuous thread with some interest, and at times marvelled at
> > the 'catfight' it seems to have engendered. Contributor 'Mark' is our network
> > manager and a Linux / Solaris devotee - and a fine one at that!
>
> There is no "catfight". It's a group of people having a robust
> discussion.
>
> > it or not, MS provided the impetus for the PC framework onto which most educational
> > software has attached itself, and there are many fine products - almost an infinite
> > supply at increasingly competitive prices.
>
> I thought Apple were there before Microsoft but I may be wrong. When I
> first saw computers in schools there were Apple ]['s and Commodore 64's.
>
> > The move to Linux etc. appears to have moved us some steps backwards, despite the
> > supposed 'low cost'.
>
> For thirty years there's been an operating system that has run
> seamlessly and without too many grand flaws. It just runs. You don't
> hear the "HP-UX just crashed again", or the "SOLARIS lost all my data".
> There's a saying that I saw somewhere "Why throw away 30 year's
> experience?".
>
> > We now have to employ full-time network managers, and the
> > ability for the teacher to have a key role in running (or intergering with) systems
> > becomes increasingly remote.
>
> Full time network managers are a boon to any system - Novell, NT,
> Windows 2000, LanTastic, Linux or whatever. The "install the network
> once" and it will "never need touching again" is just not true. For any
> current operating system. Furthermore, since when do system
> administrators or network managers stop teachers/staff/people who use
> the system from helping to run the system.
>
> The whole point of having logon's and users is so the network staff can
> allow users to customise their logons to their heart's contents. Are you
> seriously advocating the "every teacher has an NT Administrator account
> and can do the `what happens if I put C: in the trash can' trick"? I'd
> hazard a bet that in schools where there are no network managers that
> there are a few teachers who - for whatever reason - might know more
> than the others and they're the ones who keep the system running.
>
> Oops, did I add "network management" to their job description?
>
> > Morover, the network manager may have a very different
> > perspective of the network and technical priorities compared to the teacher in the
> > classroom.
>
> Are you saying there is a breakdown in communication in school systems?
> Are you saying that system administrators are wholly unable to work with
> their users to create a network that provides a solution to the users
> needs? If you look at any IT course that isn't totally technically
> based, you'll see things like:
>
> * communication
> * gathering user needs
> * working with users
> * creating documentation
>
> I agree that the network manager "may". I don't agree with your implied
> the network manager "will"...
>
> > We sometimes seem to be moving into 'computing for computing's sake'
> > rather than focussing on the needs of the end-user.
>
> Sometimes. Not now.
>
> > Linux is not easy to use.
>
> Oh dear! We have to learn something...
>
> > The mnemonic jargon which fills this list is evidence of
> > that.
>
> What mnemonic jargon? Have you suddenly forgotten that this is a Linux
> support list and people who understand the jargon speak on it?
>
> > OK, so network managers will look after all the background tasks, but, at the
> > end of the day, where is the software support? The Gimp, Star Office, Logo (and a
> > multitude of banner-choked net sites) may be fine, but DTP, conventional (non-java)
> > programming, CD-ROM resources, CAD, and general K-12 curriculum support seem to be
> > poorly served.
>
> You've got the "desktop" versus "server" confused here. "gcc" supports
> ANSI C and has reasonable support for ANSI C++ (well, it does C++ but
> I'm not savvy enough to know how "conformist" it is). What CD-ROM
> resources? Have you even bothered to look at http://freshmeat.net/ for
> CAD?
>
> Incidentally, I'm not in the education field and I don't know what DTP
> is... [read: don't accuse me of talking mnemonic gibberish when you're
> doing the same yourself].
>
> > Could someone please 'put me right' and point me to some resources. Once the server
> > is up, and protected by its firewall, chatting to its clients and showering them
> > with easy email and net access, what are students in schools going to be doing
> > other than sending each other silly messages and cruising the net?
>
> Learning. Funny that, eh? Incidentally, what's wrong with sending each
> other "silly messages"? And are you prepared to argue that "cruising the
> net [sic: it should be 'net] disbenefits students" when it's slowly
> becoming obvious that a new class of illiterates are emerging - the
> information technology illiterate?
>
> DSL
>
> **is feeling particularly pedantic at the moment**
>
> --
> Dodos are birds that are extinct
>  - Quoted by D.S.L. 16 April 2001
>
> --
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