LinuxSA Mailing list archives

  From: allan <allan@choska.bold.net.au>
  To  : <linuxsa@linuxsa.org.au>
  Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:17:42 +1030 (CST)

RE: Advertisers was RE: AOL? or best ISP

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Richard Russell wrote:

Richard, sorry for the delay in responding - other priorities.

> > Is the service free (to the public) or not? If it is, why do you
> > feel the need to emphasise the word free? If it isn't free, why use the
> > word at all?
> 
> I emphasised it because the services tend to be free to use but not to
> provide -- just because it comes to the consumer for no cost, doesn't mean
> that no-one is paying for it ever.
> 
> > Now, I agree that these services have costs, but if you answer yes to my
> > first question above, then that is NOT my problem, nor should it be.
> 
> sigh.

I can think of several emotions that could've been expressed by that
sigh. Do you have a preference?

> > > /.? rid /. of its advertisers, and suddenly it has almost zero
> > income, and
> > > it ceases to exist.
> >
> > I doubt it would cease to exist. I'm sure they have other ways to offset
> > their costs. Example: Netcraft, don't bombard the email list with
> > advertisments, yet so far as I'm aware the list itself is free. After
> > having a quick look at the linuxsa webpage, I note that there is very
> > little advertising there either. Yet for all of that, linuxsa (and the
> > email list) hardly seems to be dissappearing. If anything, it's growing!
> 
> ooah wow... Netcraft's main business is in selling their services. Most of
> their time goes into that as well. The mailing list is relatively small in
> terms of what Netcraft do. I don't think it is valid to compare the effort
> Netcraft put into this mailing list to the effort that /. puts into their
> site.

Precisely, which is why Netcraft can afford (and choose) to host the
linuxsa email list(s) at no cost to linuxsa subscribers. Netcraft don't,
as I said before, advertise on the list, but people like yourself will
happily advertise their services for them. There have been several
occasions where someone wants to know where to get hardware & people on
the list have directed them to Netcraft. Not a complaint, an
observation.

Slashdot on the other hand (from what I understand of your writing) is
more like television, in that it's main business is accruing sponsorship
by offering the consumer 'good programming/information'. The better the
'ratings/hits' the more sponsors.

> > Having said that, just because /. chooses to cover their costs by
> > carrying adverts, does not obligate me (or anyone else) to acknowledge
> > those advertisers any more than we absolutely have too. If you _choose_
> > to do so, that is your right.
> 
> sigh. I'm not trying to force anyone into anything. It is your right to wear

I made no mention of force. Hmm! I should've emphasised the 'you' in
front of the word choose. 

> a rump steak on your head if you want (http://www.hatsofmeat.com). However,
> if you use the services of a business, and you want to keep using the
> services of that business (for whatever reason) then it is important to you
> that that business continues to exist -- otherwise you can't do business
> with them. That's why, if you want a regular supplier of computer hardware,
> you would choose a profitable supplier rather than one that gets by on
> unrealistically slim margins... That's why if you use a free service on the
> web that you want to continue to use, you will hope that they continue to
> exist, and would consider doing business with those that sponsor that
> service.

I'm opportunistic enough to buy hardware from retailers that have slim
margins - though I'll at least make sure there's a manufacturers
warranty. 


> > One last point before I move on: If a service (free or not - especially
> > on the internet) is as good (as you seem to be suggesting /. is) then
> > the advertisers will be clammering to be associated with the service for
> > the exposure alone.
> 
> exposure is no good until someone buys something. I don't see why you don't
> get this.

Put simply, there are likely to be more people out there with a similar
philosophy to you than there is to me. If they have the exposure & can't
sell their stuff, then either their stuff is crap, their adverts suck,
they're edvertising in the wrong place or all of the above.

> > >  I dislike the advertisers, but at least on the internet,
> > > they are not intrusive like on TV & radio...
> >
> > No!? Perhaps you have access to an internet that I don't. There is very
> 
> banner ads sit at the top of your screen on a web page that you are looking
> at. They do all they can to attract attention away from what you are doing.
> TV and Radio ads interrupt your program to give you an ad. I don't see how
> you can say that banner ads are not less intrusive than TV and radio ads...

Yep, at the top, down the sides & just about everywhere else they can
be squeesed in. I've even come across a couple of (Joe Public) sites,
that have little popup windows advertising a certain internet based
company whose name begins with 'Y'

> > little about the internet that I think should be regulated, advertising
> > would certainly fall into that category though. From curiosity, do you
> 
> hmm... I don't see why... what would need regulating, and by whom would it
> be regulated?

Truth to tell, I don't think it'll happen. What should be regulated: The
quantity of adverts on any given page. Who should regulate it: Self
regulation would be nice (& perhaps the only likely way it'd work).

> > use spam filters?
> 
> no -- I don't get that much spam, but spam is different from banner ads that
> I am referring to (perhaps I didn't make that clear)
> 
> > > You do understand by point though, don't you?
> >
> > Understand: I think so.  Agree: No.
> 
> fair enough.
> 
> > P.S. To answer my first question myself:-
> >
> > No. If people have to wade through advertising (especially irrelevant)
> > to get the info they are after, then the service is not free.
> 
> I think that wading through ads is something you do at porn and mp3 sites.
> They are not what I am talking about. I'm referring to /., user friendly,
> and so on...

ROFL!  I'm amazed that some people will assume 'the worst'.  Ignoring
(for the moment) the fact that I have a 200MB/month download limit (& I
very rarely break that limit). What does it matter where the adverts are
found, adult entertainment or not?

No they weren't what I was talking about either, in fact we're probably
talking about the very same thing, but from a different perspective.


Allan


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