LinuxSA Mailing list archives

  From: JBCurry <jbcurry@hline.localhealth.net>
  To  : David Newall <davidn@rebel.net.au>
        Mark Newton <newton@atdot.dotat.org>
  Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:41:25 -0500

RE: "Host based" routers and BGP

On Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:45 AM
David Newall wrote:
> Mark,
>
> I'm not arguing with your call to use a dedicated router for
> routing, but I
> do wonder if Ciscos really are as reliable as you think they are.
>  As an ISP
> you would get to see a lot of hardware problems from cheapo PCs, and maybe
> even from not-so-cheapo PCs, but then you get to see an awful lot
> of PCs, in
> fact far more PCs than routers I would guess.  That's likely to skew  your
> perception.

Mark's got a strong point, here.  Cisco and other quality router
manufacturers do have better MTBF rates than PCs.  Check the spec's on your
PC, then check your favorite router manufacturer's specs.  Routers are
engineered to be up and running 24/7, most PCs (save for servers) are not.
Not that you can't run 'em that way, but it was not a priority in the design
and engineering of your standard PC.  Also, there's more unnecessary
components on a PC (i/o chipsets, hard drives, etc...) that can go bad.
Even the size of the power supply is probably a factor.  There's less draw
for a router, which is less heat to convert the power, which is less
degradation of components.  (But I could be reaching on that one...)

> Since you brought up power supplies: I've seen enough never-turned-off
> cheapo PC's to say with some authority that about 4 years is a common age
> for them to blow up with power supply problems.  (I don't know how long to
> expect from a quality PC, whatever type that is!  IBM maybe?)  How long do
> you expect your Cisco to last without failure?  (And do they ever
> have power supply problems?)

Percentage-wise, I've seen more PCs die than I have hubs or routers.  And
more frequent maintenance.  While I admit I've seen more PCs than hubs &
routers, I've seen enough of both (1000's PCs, 100's hubs/routers) to feel
my observations are not skewered.

> Actually what's more interesting to me -- because I expect that Cisco
> hardware really is superb -- is what ongoing costs you have with
> them.  With
> a PC you know you're up for a new unit every few years.  Call it $1000 per
> year over the life of the unit.  You can expect to have to load serious
> bug-fixes three or four times a year, too.  I'm willing to
> believe that the
> Cisco you buy today will still be perfectly serviceable in ten
> years time or
> longer, but they certainly have software upgrades at least as
> often as your
> quality open source OS.  It seems that Cisco release security
> patches almost
> as often as Windows, so the effort for upgrading software might be worse
> than for host based routers.  (Worse in the sense of more often, although
> it's probably a no-brainer each time, which in that sense is better.)  If
> you don't buy a support contract do you get these patches for free, or do
> you have to shell out extra cash?  How much does it cost to get them
> automatically?  How much does it cost if you don't buy an upgrade
> contract?

You are absolutely correct.  A router costs more to purchase & maintain than
a PC.  You have to weigh that against how much it costs you if your network
is down.  At my previous job, 8 hours of downtime would have meant as much
as $3000 lost productivity.  One instance of a downtime would be enough to
buy a router and an annual maintenance contract.

Mark's argument to stay with dedicated routers would be valid for 99% of the
networks I've seen.  I think only a very small shop and/or a shop that isn't
adversely affected by network downtime can afford to risk using PCs as
routers.  Or perhaps if there were a specific function the PC could perform
that a standard router could not.

>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
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