LinuxSA Mailing list archives

  From: Andrew Pullin <andrew@hotspurbgc.com.au>
  To  : Jake Hawkes" <jake@infinitylimited.net>, "LinuxSA Mailing List <jake@infinitylimited.net>
  Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:35:16 +1000

Re: Web Pages

Jake,
    To be honest I wasn't getting on my "Unix soapbox". In a
commercial environment, I would hire a person who could
write HTML over a person who could just use a tool to modify
someone else's code. The reason for this is that firstly
that person has taken the time to actually learn something,
as opposed to someone who can buy a book on Friday and be a
Wizz on Monday. Secondly if a page is corrupted someway, or
has buggy cgi scripts or something, then the person who
knows can fix it, the weekend wizz doesn't even know where
to start. It seems to me that the Coder is also going to be
alot more productive and happy and be able to add to a
business, whereas a wizz who has bluffed their way into your
organisation already by claiming to be a Wizz is far less
likely to be as productive, and will just as easily shaft
you. The Wizz is far more likely to feed you a line to stall
when they don't know how to fix something, whereas the Coder
is more likely to say " I can't fix this immediately, but I
know where to quickly learn how." This later response is far
better in my book, as the Wizz will have to stall far more
and make the problem worse, while learning what he should
have learned in the first place at your expense.

    As for access, you have to get the file to modify
somehow before you can use Emacs or FrontPage. Emacs works
very well under command line in a Telnet session, does
FrontPage? The Coder could also quickly set up php or web
access to the file system to manipulate files, but the
average book wouldn't go far enough to teach that, and so
the wizz wouldn't have a clue. In my experience, the average
wizz doesn't even know what Telnet is, let alone how to set
up a session. Even if Telnet isn't available, you still need
to ftp the file before you can do anything.

    As an interviewer, I would have a terminal in an
intermediate room as applicants come in with nothing but a
text editor (notebook if you insist) and a browser, and an
instruction sheet to create a simple webpage with some non
standard things on it, a drop down menu with a simple list
for example, possibly a background shadow also. The
applicant would then have say 15 mins to create this page,
and then you would view it at the interview. It is an
excellent technique, and will quickly weed out the Coders
from the Wizzers.

    I presently work for the Federal Government, but I have
worked for small and medium business before in a managerial
position, and I have first hand experience with staff who
bullsh*t their way into a job. I can assure you that the
damage that they can cause is much worse than the hassle of
weeding them out early. I hope this has helped.
    Cheers!
        Andrew.



-----Original Message-----
From: Jake Hawkes <jake@infinitylimited.net>
To: LinuxSA Mailing List <linuxsa@linuxsa.org.au>
Date: Wednesday, 7 June 2000 22:27
Subject: Re: Web Pages


>
>Ok people, lets not get all on our unix soap boxes here.
The "GIVE ME VI
>OR GIVE ME DEATH" attitude only goes so far.
>
>Think about a commercial environment. I need the ability to
edit web
>pages while not having telnet access to the server. Ok so
ftp. But I
>want it to be as easy as frontpage. Frontpage is good and
it also blows,
>but its there.
>
>If frontpage were opensource, it would be awsome by now. It
really would
>be.
>
>Jake
>
>p.s. and I wasn't even going to qualify my comment by
saying ".. now I
>dont love microsoft or anything, but ....." but I just did.
>
>Andrew Pullin wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>     Emacs, vi and pico are all excellent software tools
for
>> creating web pages. All you need after that is a good
book
>> or instruction howto and you are away. All silliness
aside,
>> my sister is doing Multimedia Studies at Uni (yes they
give
>> you a degree for advanced web page design now), and she
was
>> telling me that some HONOURS and 3RD YEAR students didn't
>> have a clue on how to actually write HTML because all
>> through their degree they only used these software tools
to
>> create pages and small sites. My advice to you is take
the
>> time to learn the hard way and you will be much better
off.
>> For example, do these software tools know how to debug
HTML
>> when the file is corrupted some way? I don't think so,
but a
>> human who can create HTML with a text editor can usually
>> have the page back in no time. The other problem with
these
>> tools is that they create pages very similar in 'look'
each
>> time, to the extent that some of them you just look at
the
>> page and you can say "Created with FrontPage" etc. Well I
>> suppose I haven't really answered your question, but
maybe
>> this has given you some food for thought anyway.
>>     Cheers!
>>         Andrew.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brian Marr <sirreg@dove.net.au>
>> To: LinuxSA <linuxsa@linuxsa.org.au>
>> Date: Wednesday, 7 June 2000 09:39
>> Subject: Web Pages
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >New to creating Web Pages.
>> >
>> >Aside from Netscape Composer what good software packages
>> are available
>> >for Linux users to create
>> >a Web Page. Does KDE have anything ?
>> >
>> >Brian Marr
>> >
>> >--
>> >LinuxSA WWW: http://www.linuxsa.org.au/  IRC: #linuxsa
on
>> irc.linux.org.au
>> >To unsubscribe from the LinuxSA list:
>> >  mail linuxsa-request@linuxsa.org.au with "unsubscribe"
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>> the subject
>>
>> --
>> LinuxSA WWW: http://www.linuxsa.org.au/  IRC: #linuxsa on
irc.linux.org.au
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>
>--
>Jake Hawkes B.Eng, (CSE)
>
>"I'm only smart enough to know how stupid I am", Joe
Strummer.
>
>--
>LinuxSA WWW: http://www.linuxsa.org.au/  IRC: #linuxsa on
irc.linux.org.au
>To unsubscribe from the LinuxSA list:
>  mail linuxsa-request@linuxsa.org.au with "unsubscribe" as
the subject

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