LinuxSA Mailing list archives

  From: Mark Newton <newton@atdot.dotat.org>
  To  : C4IS <C4IS@EISA.NET.AU>
  Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:37:56 +0930 (CST)

Re: POLITIX

In comments to Craig Turner, C4IS wrote:

 > >Perhaps I should qualify. I need as many facts and arguments as 
 > >possible with regard to the unworkable nature of the legislation.
 > 
 > Excellent... why not write a [nice] FAQ with the well-organised
 > *results* of your research into these facts & arguments?

Reality check:  The legislation is Government Order of Business number
2 on the daily programme for the House of Reps today, scheduled to be
debated just after question time (should start about about 3:15pm EST).
By my reckoning that means we have about an hour and a half to attempt
to convince anyone who needs convincing (because we won't be able to
talk to them at question time or in the time leading up to it).

Concerned Onlookers can either spend that hour and a half writing a FAQ,
or they can spend it talking to MPs.  There is no middle path.

 > That would comprise a major contribution towards the
 > debate and a step forward, toward the goal you have
 > set for yourself IMHO.

In your mind, perhaps.  I think most of the people who have participated
in this thread realize that the path the young libs have taken is an
attempt to moderate the path their parliamentary colleagues are taking,
and, while not perfect, it's a step in the right direction.  You may need
a FAQ to spell it out in stultifying detail, but you'll probably have to
write it yourself.

Additionally, an FAQ is literally a "Frequently Asked Questions" list.
I haven't seen many questions asked, just a lot of complaints and
accusations coupled with "I'm older and wiser than you, Sonny" type 
smears.

 > I'd really like to see a single FAQ
 > that one could find BOTH pro & con arguments
 > (ideally in two separate sections, compiled by ad-
 > herents to the two distinct sides.

What would be the point of that?  Ample info from both sides is already
widely available.  If you think such a document would be beneficial to
the community at large I'm sure you'll get support if you want to write
one, but in the meantime the rest of us will channel our efforts into
more fruitful pursuits.

 > (Getting the people of each side together for such
 > a project just might help each side discover that
 > "Hey, those people arn't so bad after all."

But they are -- They're censors, driven by an urge to forbid you from
reading what you want to read and put people in jail if they don't do
what the censors say.  That's what it's all about, and, as such, I
have no intention in participating in an effort which will defend
their side of the argument.

 >  Even if it didn't, though, the thought of some public de-
 > bates - e.g. between the two groups' best bebate
 > orators - is one that I like.)

That's fine, except that what you like appears to be a pointless waste
of time.  I see no benefit in grandstanding for the benefit of people
who just want to see a public argument.

 > Why not push harder and get the axiom(s) that will
 > save you (and generations of others like you in the
 > future) time that you must now spend fighting each
 > and every theorem that the gov't of the day may
 > try to "prove" in the light of the non-existence of
 > such (Free Speech) axioms.

Oh, for gods sake.  Do you think we can secure those axioms *today*?
Before the bill is debated?  In the next hour and a half, perhaps?
If not, we'll have to fight that battle another day.  We have more 
important and urgent things to look at right now.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some phone calls to make...

   - mark

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I tried an internal modem,                    newton@atdot.dotat.org
     but it hurt when I walked.                          Mark Newton
----- Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 ------------- Fax: +61-8-82231777 -----

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