LinuxSA Mailing list archives

  From: C J M Turner <cjmturner@beoscentral.com>
  To  : linuxsa@linuxsa.org.au
  Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:25:24 Set the time zone in the Time preference utility

Re: Motion of opposition to internet cencorship legislation

>So, why haven't you made your view better known...
>- e.g. by contributing in the Linux SA debate -
>i.e. BEFORE the GST went through (yesterday)...?

...
I wasn't talking about the GST. I support the GST. And as to the 
internet legislation, I *have* made my view known. I have argued with 
Senators Chapman and Hill in front of reasonably large audiences in 
meetings and have spoken to several members.

>> I have been taking an active role in the debate over the
>> government's internet censorship legislation, talking to members, in
>> the debate, etc. I was particularly concerned to be told that may
>> people believe that such legislation is the Liberal Party line.
>Most that I have spoken to believe that it was
>just one of the negotiating tactics used to get
>the GST through...

But the Democrats voted for the GST and they don't support the internet 
legislation.

>I have no doubts that - now that the GST is well on its way -
>we will see the silly Internet censorship legislation die...

I was hoping this but am decreasingly convinced that it is the case. 
Some senators seem worryingly supportive of it.

>Just imagine how much more progress we might have
>made (e.g. on positive e-commerce legislation) had
>there been a Bill of Rights -or- a Freedom of Speech
>clause at the right point in our legislative framework.

Of gun law reform. I'm trying to use factors of workability rather than 
philosophy to push my case. When you discuss philosophy, things can get 
wishyu wahsy,. whereas I want to stick to concrete things (like this is 
just not worable, and here's why)

>I suppose that Young Lib hopefuls will soon suggest
>that they have brought the Old (Powerful) Lib's back
>to their senses - i.e. now that the GST is on its way -
>and will take responsibility for "saving" Australia from
>the embarassment & cost of implementing the very
>legislation that has cost this country & its short-sighted
>legislators much respect - both within its borders and
>out in the larger world.

.... riiight....

Um... my original email had nothing to do with the GST... and again, 
the Democrats don't support the GST.

>a lot of us have discovered - through the very Internet
>that you would have censored - that OTHER governments
>in the world actually listen to their scientists & technologists
>when they render professional opinions (in areas of their
>expertise), thereby saving time, effort and money (which
>here has been expended on a senseless, dividing debate)
>to enable it to be applied (over there...) to the development
>of better e-commerce infrastructure & legislation.

OK. This is exactly the reply I saked not to get. I agree that industry 
advice needs to be taken seriously.

>I see no reason why the application of telecommunications infrastruc-
>ture (known as the Internet) should warrant any special efforts 
towards
>"forcing" businesses (i.e. ISPs) to do anything...

I explained my justification to this in the original email.

>so do I hold the present gov't responsible for our loss-of-face
>- internationally - as well as a turning of a significant portion of
>the Australian people AGAINST technologies - e.g. the Internet
>as they fear the evil aspects of it without tasting the positive
>ones, among which are many that can improve business
>and our quality of Life - even in country areas.

Um... yes me too... I think it's a disaster...

>Forget it, sonny... Take wisdom from where ever it may come
>- even the Internet.. and take your pleas for applause & new
>members with you as you walk away from Linux SA.

I've been coming to meetings when I have been able to since 1997 
(whenever the meeting on recomiling the kernel was) and playing around 
with linux since 0.97, and with OS/2 much longer.

>> It was carried.
>Too bad you didn't seek the opinions of some of the technolo-
>gists here on Linux SA earlier...  ;)

I've been speaking to the EFA and a group of third and above year 
students on a mailing list called labf at Flinders. My concern about 
talking to people on the LinuxSA list is that I was concerned I'd 
receive more emails like this one than constructive ones.

>Develop "cottage industries" and the kinds of "telecommuting jobs"
>that AFAIK only government workers have access to at present...

I agree absolutely. Tell me what you're doing in the political process 
to help speed things along. Have you joined a party to make your views 
known? If you haven't, you should, and it doesn't matter which one.

>Perhaps your repressive mentality is responsible for Australia's
>high suicide rate... another world record, I understand...)

*My* repressive mentality? You didn't happen to once be an OS/2 user 
did you? ;) (I did, so I can say these things)

>I have argued so (see above), in favor of attrbuting to parents
>a sense of responsibility for their children's upbringing -and-
>the capability to decide for themselves what is appropriate
>for their children, given the opportunity and some guidance.

Um... me too. But it's better to focus on workability when you can, 
because it is unarguable. But yes, I agree with your proposition.

>> Please resist any temptation to respond with flaming because
>> of the second part and recognise what we're trying to do.
>Why?  Would you "force" your reader to respond as you wish?
>Is this your idea of open and complete political debate?!?

I explained why in the original email again. There's a difference to 
responding freely and flaming.

>We are quite free to express ourselves in any way that we wish,
>as you are, sonny.

And I find this tone very patronising. I am employed in the information 
technology industry and deserve the same respect that would be paid to 
anybody else on this list.

>Let's hope you receive and consider some feedback
>(like the above) before you do... and maybe take your
>motion back for a second reading.

I would be extremely glad to get some more arguements related to the 
unworkability of the policy from you guys. I did well presenting my 
motion, but still felt somewhat unprepared, and I'd like to be able to 
face anything I am challenged with with regard to workability.

  - C

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