LinuxSA Mailing list archives

  From: Alex Garner <linuxsa@bourbon.lynx.net.au>
  To  : Tyson LT , linuxsa@linuxsa.org.au
  Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 18:05:36 +0930

Re: SIOCADDRT: invalid argument (???)

At 19:23 22/05/99 +0930, Tyson LT wrote:
>> 1. Having fully attempted to resolve the problem before asking for help
>> on the list.
>
>Crap...had it occured to any of you that I did try??? (Why else would I
>*risk* a post...)

(Here we go!)

OK, some points.

1) You have correctly identified that you have a problem with your linux
installation.
2) You have also correctly identified that a *really good* source of
information and help with linux related problems are the people on LinuxSA.
3) I don't know if you know this or not, but a few of those people include
Mr Corkindale and Mr Newall. There *ARE* people on this list who can help you.

So it would seem to me that given the cost of the advice and the help
available through LinuxSA, if either Mr Corkindale or Mr Newall or any one
else on this list tells you *how* to ask a question, then *listen* to the
advice, don't tell them they're wrong. I know this sounds horrible and
cruel and nasty, but Mr Corkindale and Mr Newall and others on this list
*DO* actually have better things to do with their time than help you.

However, they still seem to be here and seem to be willing to help you
solve their problem. If you decide to grab the soapbox and tell us all how
you feel about the so-called perceived opinion of UNIX people, then that is
your prerogative, but you will not get any help. This means that Mr
Corkindale, Mr Newall, and the other people on this list who can help you
will more than likely go back to doing really amazing things with Linux,
while you go back to NT (hey you brought it up! ;o) ) and keep rebooting.

>What if I was a real newbie, or an NT specialist who was just starting to
>try out Linux but needed some help, or I didn't even know that manpages
>existed, which many newbies (or stupid people) don't?

You have to understand that if the LinuxSA community has the help you need,
and the only cost they ask you to bear to get it is to do a little
research, then honour this requirement, or you will get no help. Sorry if
this rubs you up the wrong way, but that's the way it works. If you don't
like it, I'm sure Mr Corkindale and Mr Newall really won't be that
flustered. Once the newcomers to this operating system realize how the
system of asking questions and getting answers works, these types of
conversations will cease.

It really is as simple as making sure you've tried before you ask. And
remember, experienced users can always tell when you have tried and when
you are being lazy. Just make sure you fall into the latter category and I
PROMISE you that LinuxSA will work for you.

>The reason I didn't give more info is because that was all the info
>I had....
>At boot time, right after net-card probe, it says SIOCADDRT: invalid
>argument.

Yes but at the beginning of the e-mail that this reply is to, you gave us
more information about your problem. You tried some man pages and you
looked at some scripts. Problem is you did this in *this* post not your
*original* one. That is what I'm talking about.

>I think I might cool off trying to persuade my NT-admin friends to try
>Linux, if this is the case. (I think I might be echoing an old religious
>war about elitism amongstUnix users here...)

Experienced linux users can tell when you have tried your best and when you
ave not. The stupidest questions in the world are asked on this list every
day, and when they are asked by someone who has tried everything, it gives
me, and others, great pleasure in supplying that missing piece of
information. It's when people lose sight of the fact that people here are
here for free, and then get shitty when they get asked to play by the
rules, that this so-called reputation forms. But hey, it's not the people
with the reputations that lose out, it's you.

Remember the Linux SA golden rule:

	The people on this list who have the solution you require,
	can tell when you have tried your best to solve the problem
	yourself, and when you have not.

It's like a built in sixth sense. Don't set it off and you will be fine,
but if you do, you won't get help, and that's you who looses, not Mr Newall
or Mr Corkindale or anyone else who is doing things with linux that your NT
friends just can't (Once again, you brought it up! *grin*)

>Please forgive me if I sound a little pissed off, but if you can't stand
>newbies, then...well I don't know. Perhaps that's something you need to
>sort out for yourself.

No, It's something that you have to sort out. Do this and you will have all
the free linux help you need. It's not a big ask.

>I think it's a bit sad that some people can set a rather high standard of
>knowledge on SA's (I presume) only Linux list, which I was previously proud
>of, but then refuse to split the list when people that know less than them
>bug them with "dumb" questions.

I really hope that you and anyone else who has participated in this debate
up till now can get something out of my post today. These newbie issues
really have nothing to do with having separate lists, or special Subject
headers or, preset levels of knowledge, or that Linux is for programmers only.

It's as simple as not expecting people to do your hard work for you, for free.


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